Saturday 2 December 2017

Why can I not move you?!

Again, we leave Min, but do not go very far (well, if "Indonesian Hakka" is not very far for you :) ), since we have a Mandarin song and a Hakka song, both titled "I move the sky and the earth" in my book, that is 感动天感动地 in characters, though the Hakka one presents itself as "kam thung sim", which would be "感动心 | move the heart", a phrase which does not appear in the song and which I thus reject as a title.
So from "Missing you" we move to "Why is there no way I can move you when I move pretty much everything else with my love-induced sadness?": we keep on the track of sad love (though the last song didn't seem all that sad, truth be told). The Hakka spelling is, as usual, the one described here.
The variety of Hakka is termed by the video title as "印尼客家", or "Indonesian Hakka", which is IMO a very vague term. I cannot make this more precise since I don't know enough about Hakka variants and Ånton Xiè, my main consultant for Hakka and the founder of the Hakka Verse Facebook Group, can't tell. [Actually, I probably suspected it was Hailu Hakka, since we have the j pronunciation of y shared with Ånton's Hakka, and Justin Richard Leung commented below to agree, so I guess that's a safe assumption.] This is why I called it "Lily Hakka" in the spelling post, to distinguish it some way, and because the title says it's either written or sung by a "Lily", whom I may have found on Facebook, though she hasn't answered my "Is this your song?" post in Hakka Verse just yet.
These were both met sometime in the summer of 2012, more specifically the Mandarin first appears in Firefox session 20, from 13/7/12, session 19 being from 12/7, whereas the Hakka comes first and appears in session 7, from 12/5/12, session 6 being from 10/5.
  1. The Mandarin was easily translated that same summer, definitely between 18/8/12 at 21:16 and 3/9/12 at 13:25, but probably within 25/8/12 at 10:51, seen as that's where I have a file that seems to present the lyrics of all the songs that are left to be translated; actually that file is kind of untrustworthy, and the mega-intro dates this translation to 26/8 anyway; the 3/9 file shows us the oldest extant version, which is almost the below one, and remained fixed until the drafting of the post; there were two mistakes, namely the parts «So never did I let you go / But put you in my heart» and «I can find out love at the start / Was not true and so you can», which were apparently noticed and fixed "today", i.e. on 27/11/2017, this post's drafting date;
    the translation into my own conlang dates to 29/8/12, apparently wholly done on that day; this is the third of my conlang attempts, the most fleshed out of them; I will eventually write a short grammar with a glossary of the language, and therein I will remake this garbage translation; for now, I need to mention MickConlangs, where, at the end, I give three versions of this: the one I put together in 2018, the one I would probably have wanted in 2012, and the one with corrections from 29/11/23 1:24-1:33 based on studying the Conlang's grammar as explained back in 2012; it is this last one which I include here; eventually, it will be in the "original" tab; for now, there are no tabs, because the remake is still in the works;
  2. The Hakka one needed a long decodification process:
    • First we have my reconstruction attempt, meaning a partial Hanzi-ification and an incomplete and very wrong translation that I give as a bonus at the end of the post; this first appears in the 3/9/12 file, and stays like that in all other files, at least as far as the translation is concerned;
    • Then we have this comment, from "9 years ago", which first appears in a file from 9/8/13 at 17:25 and is sided with the incomplete mistranslation in the bonus below, and my reply to it, which first appears in a file from 18/8/12 at 20:04;
    • Next up, this HV post and this Chinese SX post;
    • At that point, I thought it was over, but nope, as I prepared this draft on Nov 27 2017 I ran into this comment with a few differences; so I started the translation when I met the song [well, that's what I thought when drafting this, it may have been quite a while later], and will complete it today, Nov 27 2017.
LAST-MINUTE ADDITION: Browsing random bookmarks I found Anton Xie's Hakka version of the Mandarin song, probably met in this post from 23/5/16, which is different from both the original and the other Hakka version. I'll add it to the mix with an English translation done upon updating this post on Jan 15 2018 between 11:23:50 and 11:27:55. No videos AFAIK. Let's see all this stuff!


一开始我以为
爱本来会很容易
所以没有经过允许
就把你放心里
知道后来有一天
你和他走在一起
我才发现原来爱情
不是真心就可以

我感动天感动地
怎么感动不了你
明明知道没有结局
却还死心塌地
我感动天感动地
怎么感动不了你
从相信爱情会有奇迹
都是我骗自己

所有从开始

以为自己不再去想你
保持不被刺痛的距离
就算早已忘了我自己
却还想要知道你的消息

我感动天感动地
怎么感动不了你
明明知道没有结局
却还死心塌地
我感动天感动地
怎么感动不了你
从相信爱情会有奇迹
都是我骗自己



At the start I believed
Love would start out easily
So you did not allow me to,
But I put you in my heart
I know there will be one day
That you will leave me for him
I just found out that being true
Is not enough in love!

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
I well do know we’ll get to naught
But my love still falters not
I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
Always thought love would bring miracles
Just cheated me myself

I believe I will no more love you
Keep away so that you won’t hurt me
Though I’ve already forgot myself
I still really want to have news from you

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
I well do know we’ll get to naught
But my love still falters not
I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
Always thought love would bring miracles
Just cheated me myself
Yī kāishǐ wǒ yǐwéi
Ài běnlái huì hěn róngyì
Suǒyǐ méiyǒu jīngguò yǔnxǔ
Jiù bǎ nǐ fàng xīn lǐ
Zhīdào hòulái yǒu yī tiān
Nǐ hé tā zǒu zài yīqǐ
Wǒ cái fāxiàn yuánlái àiqíng
Bù shì zhēnxīn jiù kěyǐ

Wǒ gǎndòng tiān gǎndòng dì
Zěnme gǎndòng bùliǎo nǐ
Míngmíng zhīdào méi yǒu jiéjú
Què hái sǐxīntādì
Wǒ gǎndòng tiān gǎndòng dì
Zěnme gǎndòng bùliǎo nǐ
Cóng xiāngxìn àiqíng huì yǒu qíjī
Dōu shì wǒ piàn zìjǐ

Suǒyǒu cóng kāishǐ

Yǐwéi zìjǐ bù zài qù xiǎng nǐ
Bǎochí bù bèi cìtòng de jùlí
Jiùsuàn zǎoyǐ wàngle wǒ zìjǐ
Què hái xiǎng yào zhīdào nǐ de xiāoxī

Wǒ gǎndòng tiān gǎndòng dì
Zěnme gǎndòng bùliǎo nǐ
Míngmíng zhīdào méi yǒu jiéjú
Què hái sǐxīntādì
Wǒ gǎndòng tiān gǎndòng dì
Zěnme gǎndòng bùliǎo nǐ
Vóng xiāngxìn àiqíng huì yǒu qíjī
Dōu shì wǒ piàn zìjǐ



Dzã kheħẏí/ a-mä’kstá/
Òxke/ ṁa bũ trě fagè/ks
Dakra/ dzaye/b afä/ed óƀ
Sed fa/nged óƀ dzã ṁin
Asapèks/ dliś dzã ka júx
I ye u í-itśekshwei/
Tsan fa/śare òxke/ ṁa bũ
Djinsi/ n-è/ed dju i-pò/’ks

Aga/nèks tĩl ga/nèks těxl
Sed antsa/n gana/re óƀ
Ben ben sapè/ks ánfru/tèkshwei
Sed ṁa etś u-nesitdje/ing
Aga/nèks tĩl ga/nèks těxl
Sed antsa/n gana/re óƀ
Thö amä/ed ṁa u-a/khwei álz
Sed dji atcít'dje/ing’ks’ta ma’n

Amãè/ks n-areśäè/kshwei óƀ
Ariuè/kshwei dzã nupé/na fámŕ
Ṯòx djam awńgèksata/ maħu/n
Äk’r aśä/èks aga/re nyū/zi de óƀ

Aga/nèks tĩl ga/nèks těxl
Sed antsa/n gana/re óƀ
Ben ben sapè/ks ánfru/tèkshwei
Sed ṁa etś u-nesitdje/ing
Aga/nèks tĩl ga/nèks těxl
Sed antsa/n gana/re óƀ
Thö amä/ed ṁa u-a/khwei álz
Sed dji atcít'dje/ing’ks’ta ma’n




一开始愐着以为
爱情本等当然容易
所以真真想起
恁样怎么放落心去
结果有一断时

试着知道原来爱情
讲爱就可以

感动天感动地
做么为何感动
明明爱情就结果
做么为何死死等
感动天感动地
做么为何感动
希望自家做一下
结果单者自己

所有从开始

翻再再次去想
试着知道我的来同去
还没单者自己阿里这里
每日每时恬恬想

感动天感动地
做么为何感动
明明爱情就结果
做么为何死死等
感动天感动地
做么为何感动
去望自家做一下
结果单者自己
Yit khoi-sé ngâi mién-tó
Òi-tshîn pún-tén tshìu àn yûng-yì
Só-yi ngâi mô cin-cin sióng-khì
Àn-nyòng piòng lȯk sim hì
Kiet-kwó ngâi yìu yit thon shî
Ngâi khòn-tó nyî kak tò kî
Ngâi càng chì-tó nyên-lôi òi-tshîn
M hè kóng òi tshiù tet-nyî

Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tó nyî
Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó
Tsò-mài sí-sí tén tó ló
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tó nyî
Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà
Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ

Só-yu tshiûng khoi-sé

Ngâi sióng m òi fan-tsài hì sióng nyî
Chì-tó nga sim m òi fan lâi thûng-hì
Mâng ti ngâi tan-sâ tshoi a-li
Mui-nyit mui-shî tiâm-tiâm sióng to nyî

Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tó nyî
Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó
Tsò-mài sí-sí tén tó ló
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tó nyî
Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà
Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ


At the start I believed
Love surely would go easily
So I do not recall that well
How I put you in my heart
Therefore there will be a time
I'll see you go back to him
I just found out that being true
Is not enough in love!

I move the sky move the earth
Why can I in no way move you
It’s clear this love will bring no fruit
So why do I still insist?
I move the sky move the earth
Why can I in no way move you
I hoped I would get to something
But just deceived myself

All from start

I believe I will no more love you
I know my heart will not go back with you
But don't yet know I am here alone
Thinking quietly of you every day!

I move the sky move the earth
Why can I in no way move you
It’s clear this love will bring no fruit
So why do I still insist?
I move the sky move the earth
Why can I in no way move you
I hoped I would get to something
But just deceived myself




一开去话着以为
爱情容易事情
所以多想
就放落心里
仰形这样到一日
走忒忒去
知着原来爱情
毋系不是真心就可以

感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
本来都知会结局
还死心塌下去
感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
静静想爱情会有奇迹
自己一人

一开去话着以为
爱情容易事情
所以多想
就放落心里
仰形这样到一日
走忒忒去
知着原来爱情
毋系不是真心就可以

感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
本来都知会结局
还死心塌下去
感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
静静想爱情会有奇迹
自己一人

话着以为自家去想
堤防会刺痛空间
就算记得自家
到着消息

感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
本来都知会结局
还死心塌下去
感动天感动地
做么为何感动无着不到
静静想爱情会有奇迹
自己一人
Yit khoi hì ngâi và tó
Òi-tshîn hè koi kài sìi-tshîn
Só-yi ngâi mô àn to sióng kî
Tshìu piòng nyî lȯk sim lí
Che nyong-hin tèu yit nyit
Nyi kak kî tséu-thet-thet hì
Ngâi cang ti-tó nyên-lôi òi-tshîn
M̄ hè cin-sim tshìu khó-yi

Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Pún-lôi tu ti vòi mô kiet-khiu̇k
Hân sí-sim thap ha hì
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Tiam sióng òi-tshîn vòi yìu khî-tsiak
Tshiàng phièn tó ngâi ka tî

Yit khoi hì ngâi và tó
Òi-tshîn hè koi kài sìi-tshîn
Só-yi ngâi mô àn to sióng kî
Tshìu piòng nyî lȯk sim lí
Che nyong-hin tèu yit nyit
Nyi kak kî tséu-thet-thet hì
Ngâi cang ti-tó nyên-lôi òi-tshîn
M̄ hè cin-sim tshìu khó-yi

Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Pún-lôi tu ti vòi mô kiet-khiu̇k
Hân sí-sim thap ha hì
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Tiam sióng òi-tshîn vòi yìu khî-tsiak
Tshiàng phièn tó ngâi ka tî

Và tó tshìi-ka m̄ òi hì sióng nyî
Phî-fông m̄ vòi tshiuk-thùng kài khung-kian
Tshìu-sòn m̄ kì-tet-thet ngâi tshìi-ka
Hân hè sióng-òi tò tó nya siau-sit

Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Pún-lôi tu ti vòi mô kiet-khiu̇k
Hân sí-sim thap ha hì
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì
Tò-mài kám-thùng mô tó nyî
Tiam sióng òi-tshîn vòi yìu khî-tsiak
Tshiàng phièn tó ngâi ka tî


At the start I believed
That love was an easy thing
I did not think of it too much
And put you in my heart
But this way there'll be one day
When you will leave me for him
And then I will find out that love
Is not just sincerity

I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I always knew I'd get no fruits
But still stayed unfaltering
I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I though love would be wonderful
But only deceived myself!

At the start I believed
That love was an easy thing
I did not think of it too much
And put you in my heart
But this way there'll be one day
When you will leave me for him
And then I will find out that love
Is not just sincerity

I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I always knew I'd get no fruits
But still stayed unfaltering
I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I though love would be wonderful
But only deceived myself!

I believe I will no more love you
Keep away so that you won’t hurt me
Though I’ve already forgot myself
I still really want to have news from you

I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I always knew I'd get no fruits
But still stayed unfaltering
I move the sky, move the earth
Why can I just not move you?
I though love would be wonderful
But only deceived myself!



Bonus


感动天感动地(客家话)

一开始啀面动
爱情本旦?就很容易
所以啀无深深想起
有?nyong bion路心去???
结讲啀有一hon 时?
啀看到??你kat to ki
啀正知道原来爱情
唔係共爱就得你

啀感动天感动地
怎么感动唔到你
明明爱情有无结果
从mai shi shi den dan ngo
啀感动天感动地
怎么感动唔到你
去望自家晓错一下
结时啀骗单者

All from start

啀所唔啀分?? 再去想你
Shi dao 雅? shi 唔爱分来同去??????
Am ting e kan 失士?? toi a li
每日mei shi 偏偏vs tou 唔?到你

啀感动天感动地
怎么感动唔到你
明明爱情有无结果
从mai shi shi den dan ngo
啀感动天感动地
怎么感动唔到你
去望自家晓错一下
结时啀骗单者



一開始𠊎偭到,
愛情本等就恁容易
所以𠊎冇真真想起
恁樣放落心去
結果𠊎一斷心
看到汝搭撈佢
𠊎正識到原來愛情
毋系講愛就得矣

𠊎感動天感動地
做麽感動不到汝
明明愛情就冇結果
做麽呃死死等到老
𠊎感動天感動地
做麽感動不到汝
希望自家想作一下
結果𠊎騙徠儕








𠊎感動天感動地
做麽感動不到汝
明明愛情就冇結果
做麽呃死死等到老
𠊎感動天感動地
做麽感動不到汝
希望自家想作一下
結果𠊎騙徠儕
Kam-tong thien kam-tong ti

Jit khai-si ngai mien-tong
Oi-cin pun tan ciu an jung-ji
Sho-ji ngai mo cim-cim shiong ki
A nyong bion lo shim hi
Kiet-kong ngai jiu jit hon shi
Ngai khòn to nyi kat to ki
Ngai jang[cang] chi-do yen[mien]-loi oi-ching
M he kong-oi ciu tèk nyi

Ngai kam-tong thien kam-tong ti
Co-me kam-tong m do ngi
Ming-ming oi-ching jiu mo kiet-ko
Cong mai shi shi den danm ngo
Ngai kam-tong thien kam-tong ti
Co-me kam-tong m do ngi
Hi-mong chi-ga hiao co jit-ha
Kiet-sr ngai pien dan-sa

All from start

Ngai sho m ai fan sai hit shiong ngi
Shi dao nga shi m oi fan lai tong hi
Am ting e kan sat s toi a li
Mui nyit mei shi pien pien vs tou n do ngi

Ngai kam-tong thien kam-tong ti
Co-me kam-tong m do ngi
Ming-ming oi-ching jiu mo kiet-ko
Cong mai shi shi den danm ngo
Ngai kam-tong thien kam-tong ti
Co-me kam-tong m do ngi
Hi-mong chi-ga hiao co jit-ha
Kiet-sr ngai pien dan-sa



At the start I believed
That love would start out easily
I didn’t really want to start
But my heart went elsewhere
In the end there’ll be a time
I’ll see you …
I can well now love at the start
Was not mutual so got you

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
It’s clear this love will bring no fruit

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
I know that I can make mistakes
But I just cheated me

All from start

I believe I will no more love you


Ev’ry day I always think of you

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
It’s clear this love will bring no fruit

I move the sky move the earth
But no way I can move you
I know that I can make mistakes
But I just cheated me

3 comments:

  1. Hi, I think this Hakka is Hai-Lu (Hoi-luk-fung). It has the characteristic /ʒ/ sound for your romanization's "y". There is a study on Singkawang Hakka (http://web3.hakka.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=42325&ctNode=1880&mp=1869), which might be of interest to you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, I thought so too. A Hoi-luk-fung subdialect with /dʒ/, I believe. Because I'm pretty sure I hear an affricate in the video. Indeed, the toneless romanization used in the Hakka Verse Facebook group uses j for y, as a loan from Indo spelling.

      I believe "Nyit-theu lok-san tiam siong to nyi" (the song I commented about in the SE post about Hakka equivalents of the bâ object particle) is also in sich a Hakka.

      Another feature of theHakka dialects of that song and of Anton Xie and Mirvin Lim's songs is the neutralisation of the contrast between ts and c and analogues.

      Is it right that Zhang Shaolin's songs are in Huiyang (Fui-yong) Hakka (with heavy Cantonese influence)?

      Delete
    2. Zhang Shaolin's ancestral home is Danshui, Huizhou, which is in Huiyang, so yes, I think his songs are in Huiyang Hakka. I think Huizhou Hakka is generally heavy Cantonese-influenced in itself.

      Delete